Comments on Jen But Never Jenn: The Way Things Were a.k.a. Holy Fuck, 1965

@longerthoughts You just keep on with that, bucko...

2012-01-23T11:16:26.340-05:00

@longerthoughts

You just keep on with that, bucko. What about illegal immigrants who look "American"? Speak English? Do you think they are a target of that law? Hmm? No? Interesting.

Arizona has a helluva track record. Context is important.

Wow. And while we've come far, I think we stil...

2012-01-17T21:25:14.356-05:00

Wow. And while we've come far, I think we still have a ways to go, as evidenced by the hysteria around the LGBT community, Muslims, the Mexican border ... 50 years from now, I'm sure a future generation will be mocking our headlines. At least, I hope that's the case.

Wow. That's horrible. I live in a predomin...

2012-01-17T13:53:52.995-05:00

Wow. That's horrible.

I live in a predominately white, Christian area in Utah. I remember my sister (probably 7 years old, 12 years ago) telling my mom that some kids couldn't play with her friend because she had two moms. My parents never had an issue with my sister playing there. In fact, they made the "two mom" thing seem like no big deal--and it's not a big deal, but in this area they were evidently the odd parents letting their daughter play at the home of a lesbian couple.

I'm glad we're making progress, I just wish it was happening faster.

I watched "Mad Men S1" several months ba...

2012-01-17T11:31:52.492-05:00

I watched "Mad Men S1" several months back and while I enjoyed it, my modern self just wanted to throw a shoe through the screen and knock some sense into these people. This is just typical of the time: women were secretaries and called "sweetheart" at the office, men smoked and drank at the office and were the boss and bringer-of-bacon, wife stayed home with the kiddos, people were quite appalled - almost paranoid - of divorcees, etc. This is what it was when it was. I sincerely hope we've come a long way (baby!) since then, but it is an individual thing as well, and we're all responsible for making these changes within our selves to help things continue to be better.

You know, I remember my parents saying the same th...

2012-01-17T10:51:40.436-05:00

You know, I remember my parents saying the same things ten years back - but about gay and lesbian couples moving into the neighborhood, not African-Americans.

Woah. I don't even know what to say about tha...

2012-01-16T21:11:01.801-05:00

Woah. I don't even know what to say about that. I do think that the good thing about this article is how shocked and appalled we all are by it. To me, that more than anything shows how far we've come.

But still. Woah. My eyes bugged out seeing some of those words in print.

Thanks for sharing. This isn't your main poin...

2012-01-16T19:36:21.441-05:00

Thanks for sharing. This isn't your main point, but with respect, I would say that we have come a long way - in fact, farther than you think. Because I think several of the examples in your rapid-fire linked collection of "hateful" stories are in fact not examples of hate. The Arizona immigration law is probably the best example - most people in favor of that law favored it because they wanted to reduce illegal immigration, believed that the federal government wasn't doing enough and thought that the state needed to do whatever it could. Whatever you may think of the law, that was their motivation. They didn't hate Hispanics, the charge leveled at them by many in the media. (I remember an NPR survey that found that 27% of Hispanics favored the law - a minority, sure, but an awful large minority to explain away if you think support for the law is really the result of racism!) Oh, I've little doubt you could find a few people that favored the law because they were racists, but they would represent only a small and irrelevant minority.

And I would make a similar argument about *some* of your other links.

Why does this matter? I think we should be very careful not to accuse someone (or some group) of "hate" or any of its specific forms (e.g., racism) without exceedingly good evidence, because every time you make an accusation that someone doesn't believe, you diminish the future power of that accusation for everyone. Racism is probably the best example - that charge has been so common in politics in the last 20 years that many people today literally laugh when they hear it. They just assume it isn't true, and you'd have to work incredibly hard to convince them otherwise, because 49 of the last 50 times they heard it it didn't appear to be true. A charge that should make people gasp instead makes them roll their eyes. What a terrible situation for the next person who really is a victim of racism.

On the one hand you can tell that the lady writing...

2012-01-16T18:11:50.850-05:00

On the one hand you can tell that the lady writing the article is trying hard to overcome her own prejudices. However, her rationalizations can be down right appalling. I know in some ways society has a long way to go towards equality but I'm thankful that progress has been made. As a Southern, white, Christian mother, I strive everyday to teach my boys to love one another no matter what someone looks like, sounds like, acts like, etc. And sometimes my oldest looks at me with "Duh, Mom" expression on his face. This makes me smile because to him it's natural to do that.

Thanks for sharing the article. I read it with interest and a little horror! :) I would be curious to know if they ever had to deal with this on Maple Terrace and how the neighborhood handled it. Hopefully, there was a HUGE and rowdy farewell party for Mr. Heath!

Wow. Shocked and appalled and bloody well disguste...

2012-01-16T15:57:49.382-05:00

Wow. Shocked and appalled and bloody well disgusted doesn't come close to describing my thoughts on that article. Wow.

Your response (um, ending with stains...) is pretty close to what I'm thinking - it just lacks the passionate rage when the f-bombs are omitted.

I'm so happy that my kids are not exposed to this kind of attitude, that they're taught at home, at school and at church to value people regardless of race, religion, class, language, gender, sexual orientation, etc... To love and accept PEOPLE, fer cryin' out loud.

Will ask my parents about the '60's and this unbelievably tragic and ridiculous attitude of hate.

Sometimes I think I must be so sheltered, because ...

2012-01-16T15:05:57.085-05:00

Sometimes I think I must be so sheltered, because this is *ALL* so surprising and alarming to me. I've always lived in a multicultural city (Toronto), I'm of mixed race, and I've *NEVER* heard people speak this way about black people or any other group (besides in movies)! I think racism is much more subtle now because it is so unacceptable.

Thank you for sharing this. I know you've bee...

2012-01-16T14:07:34.511-05:00

Thank you for sharing this. I know you've been studying the 1950's (and 1960's?) and I was wondering when/if the issue of racial differences would come up.

I'm a 31 year old Black American woman and sadly, none of this surprises me. I was a child in NJ in the 1980s and I hate to say it, but I heard statements like this... 30 years after this article was written.

We can do better.